Minutes from Careers Advisory Forum
Thursday 25 November 2021: 10.00am - 12.00pm via Webex
Forum Members:
- Judith Gillespie, CAF Chair
- Conal Baxter, deputising for Charlene Brooks, Parenting NI interim member
- Maxine Judge, Education Authority
- Carol Fitzsimons, Young Enterprise NI
- Lisa Toland - SOLACE
- Gearoid Rafferty - ETI
- Angela Scanlon - Ulster University
- Shirley Moore, deputising for Claire Henderson, SERC
- Kieran Harding, BITC
- Esther Martin, deputising for Margaret Farragher, CCEA interim member
Members unable to attend:
- Sam Davidson, CBI
- Tony Carmichael, Disability Action
- Roger Pollen, FSB
- Julie Gorman, NIC-ICTU
- Paula Leathem, NI Chamber of Commerce
- Sandra Bailie, NICVA
Officials in attendance:
- Frances O’Hara, Careers Service (DfE)
- Raymond McAuley, Careers Service (DfE)
- Jillian Strain, Careers Service (DfE)
- Nuala McComb (DfE)
- Claire McClelland, Transition of Young People into Careers (14-19) Project
- Clement Athanasiou, Director – ACVED (Apprenticeships, Careers and Vocational Education Division)
- Gareth Edge (DE)
- Andrew Irwin (DfC)
Guest speakers
- CASCAID representatives
- Dr Deirdre Hughes, DMH Associates
Welcome
1.1 The Chair welcomed everyone to the meeting and noted deputies in attendance, as well as apologies from members unable to attend.
2. Action, advice and correspondence log
2.1 CAF Secretariat noted that action/advice points from the log would be covered by updates to be provided by Gareth Edge (GE) in relation to Department of Education (DE) developments, while Lisa Toland (LT) and Andrew Irwin (DfC) would be updating the Forum in regard to Labour Market Partnerships (LMPs).
2.2 In regard to correspondence, the CAF Chair noted that the Forum members had been provided with papers for information purposes and had also received a request from ETI to provide feedback in relation to the progress made in meeting the policy commitments within the joint DE/DfE Careers Strategy, Preparing for Success (2015-2020).
2.3 CAF members were also advised that CCEA has a new interim CEO, who will assume the role of interim CCEA representative in the Forum (deputised at this meeting by Esther Martin (EM).
3. Minutes of 23 June 2021 CAF meeting
3.1 The CAF chair noted that the minutes of the previous CAF meeting had been agreed and published on the DfE website.
4. Xello/CASCAID update
4.1 CASCAID representatives joined Maxine Judge (MJ) to deliver an update on Xello. MJ provided background on the initiative, explaining that it was a DE funded initiative delivered by the Education Authority (EA) and C2K through the School Development Service. Hands-on training delivered to careers teachers from 80 schools by CASCAID officers took place in Antrim Board Centre (EA) in March 2020. The package was then rolled out to all NI post primary schools before the end of June 2020. Further online support, including recorded webinars, has been made available to all schools during the previous and current academic year. At present, circa 30, 000 young people are registered to use Xello.
4.2 CASCAID representatives delivered a PowerPoint presentation showcasing the features of Xello and explaining how the program could be used to facilitate career and self-knowledge exploration, as well as learning provision at colleges and universities. Forum members were shown how aggregated data from students using Xello can provide insights into young people’s career/study interests and self-reported skills analyses. CASCAID representatives advised that this data could be used to inform planning at national, regional and school level. Additionally, it was explained that work-based learning in Xello can potentially help bridge the gap between education and the world of work, by allowing students to browse work-based opportunities alongside secondary options and connecting educators with local and regional industry, with the overall aim of improving students’ employability skills.
4.3 The CAF Chair asked if there were any questions from the Forum members in relation to Xello. A Forum member asked if a pupil has to register through a school in order to use Xello; for instance, if a young person is not linked to a school, is there a facility for them to log in. MJ remarked that Xello is available to both schools and FE colleges. CASCAID representatives also stated that the service allows young people not pertaining to a school to have access and a newsletter is in the works to help engage young people, such as NEETs. Matters such as ensuring GDPR compliance, are currently being attended to.
4.4 A CAF member noted MJ’s assertion that 30, 000 post-primary students are registered to use Xello, remarking that there are approximately 120, 000 such students across Northern Ireland. The CAF member observed that it will be important to consider how best to market Xello in conjunction with schools, in order to maximise reach, particularly in regard to parents, who are recognised as being key influencers in a young person’s career journey. MJ responded that there is a proactive roll-out, whereby the EA’s school improvement officers liaise with local area learning communities (ALCs). CASCAID representatives commented that the focus is on working together and sharing experiences as a network, rather than linking in with schools on an individual basis.
4.5 A CAF member noted that there is an opportunity to engage young people who may be less motivated, through effective marketing, to prevent them from dropping out of education.
4.6 A CAF member enquired if there is an opportunity for parents, as key influencers, to engage with Xello. The member also advised that SMEs in Northern Ireland make up the largest proportion of employers and noted the importance of engaging with such businesses, rather than focusing solely on large companies. CASCAID representatives commented that that there is the technology for Xello to facilitate parent access to their child’s account and this should be available early next year, pending compliance with GDPR, which is currently being attended to.
4.7 A Forum member enquired if it was possible to track changes in a young person’s aspirations as their careers ideas evolve. CASCAID representatives advised that, rather being a comparative analysis over a period of time, Xello’s reporting always uses live data and shows trends across Xello users, as opposed to individual snapshots, however many clients download reports periodically to compare data over time.
4.8 A CAF member enquired about the scale of employer uptake and enquired if CASCAID is working with any partner organisations. CASCAID representatives advised that employers can sign up to the work-based learning programme. A roll-out plan is being worked on; to date there is good representation across all industries.
4.9 Clem Athanasiou (CA) noted that Xello is accessed through the NI Direct site and commented that it would be interesting to explore the relationship between where the program is based and levels of access/uptake.
5.0 A Forum member enquired about finding out more about the data sets and samples. CASCAID representatives advised that there is a lot of data available and offered to discuss producing a report for CAF members, if this would be helpful.
5.1 The CAF Chair asked the Forum if they had any advice for CASCAID in relation to the roll-out of the work-based learning aspect of Xello. CAF members advised that it will be vital for CASCAID to work through existing umbrella/sectoral bodies to support the roll-out. The Forum also advised that it is important for young people to understand that small and micro-businesses are an important part of the employment landscape.
CAF Advice 1 – It is important to consider how best to market Xello, in conjunction with schools, to maximise reach, particularly in regard to parents.
CAF Advice 2 – There is an opportunity for Xello to engage young people through effective marketing to help prevent dropping out of the education system.
CAF Advice 3 – In rolling out the Xello work-based learning programme, CASCAID should liaise with existing umbrella/sectoral bodies in order to maximise buy-in.
CAF Advice 4 – It is important to highlight to young people that small and micro-businesses make up an important part of the employment landscape.
6. Careers guidance delivery research project
6.1 Dr Deirdre Hughes (DH) delivered a brief presentation to Forum members in relation to her upcoming research project into careers guidance delivery. DH advised she had recently completed research as part of Careers Wales five year vision, “Brighter Futures”, and had also advised the Scottish government on the implementation of their strategy. DH explained her project is a ministerial commitment and is set within the context of the current strategic backdrop, comprising 10X Economic Vision; Transition of Young People into Careers (14-19) Project and the Skills Barometer update. The project will focus on timing and modes of delivery and will be benchmarked against international best practice. There will be a rapid evidence assessment, which will see the project culminate by the end of February 2022. The research instruments will comprise online surveys, as well as focus groups.
6.2 Frances O’Hara (FOH) explained that the research will not duplicate earlier research undertaken by the Careers Service in May, but rather, the results will be used as a building block in helping to shape the “how” of future delivery mechanisms. FOH outlined how there is a body of research developing across Skills Strategy, 14-19, 10X etc., but the “how” is very important to shape future work on the Portal, digital delivery and our offer to adults.
6.3 DH advised that the research project will have two requests for CAF members: firstly, assistance with disseminating surveys links, and secondly, in responding to the call for evidence. CASCAID representatives offered to share survey link if helpful.
6.4 The CAF Chair advised that it will be important not to lose out on the employer voice in the research and asked DH when it was planned to ask employers for input. DH agreed regarding importance of employer views and explained that these will be considered as part of the call for evidence, with the option to flex the methodology if the call for evidence does not garner sufficient data.
6.5 A Forum member enquired what would happen if survey uptake was not sufficient, asking if the research project would then switch to focus groups. DH advised that the methodology is flexible and could be switched to online focus groups or interviews to gather the data required. The Forum member, offered to assist the research project if helpful, in regard to reaching the parent cohort. DH thanked the member for their offer, noting the importance of the parent stakeholder group.
6.6 The CAF Chair commented that CAF networks will be very important in ensuring the survey links are disseminated widely and that it will be important to maximise this opportunity to engage with stakeholders.
6.7 CA thanked DH for her presentation, noting the importance the Minister attaches to supporting the economy by maximising Careers Service engagement with citizens, in particular those hardest to reach, such as the NEETs group. DH commented that achieving the right balance of service delivery across young people AND adults is key. The return on investment piece will help in planning for this.
6.8 A Forum member offered to support the research project by organising focus groups of HE students if helpful, as well as offering to share data in relation to employer views from a recent survey, which could provide a potentially rich source of data for the project. DH thanked the member and advised she would be in touch.
6.9 DH concluded her update by advising that the research results will aim to contribute to a balanced, all-age careers service, with the finite funding resources available, whilst maximising the return on investment. DH advised the project descriptor and links, etc. will be accessible on DMH associates website, in due course. The CAF Chair welcomed this work and advised that CAF members will offer assistance where they can.
CAF Advice 5 – Utilising CAF networks to disseminate links to call for evidence/surveys will be essential to maximise the opportunity the careers guidance delivery research project represents for stakeholders to have their say in future Careers Service delivery.
Action Point 1 - CAF members to disseminate links to careers guidance delivery research project call for evidence/surveys as widely as possible.
7.0 DE update
7.1 Gareth Edge (GE) offered an update regarding recent developments from the Department, advising that the outstanding action points are, in the main, complete. The outstanding action point regarding addition of a post-primary school principal to the CAF, is close to completion, pending ministerial appointment.
7.2 In regard to the action point from the June CAF meeting concerning ALCs and labour market partnerships (LMPs), GE explained that the EA is keen to set up more formal relationships between businesses and the community and will explore a model that facilitates such representation.
7.3 GE also advised that ETI is reviewing the self-evaluation exercise undertaken by DE and DfE in relation to Careers provision, and acknowledged that CAF members have been asked for their views in relation to same (to be collated by CAF Secretariat).
7.4 In relation to the primary schools pilot initiative, GE reported that DE is working closely with the EA. The pilot will be modelled on a similar initiative adopted in England, (“Drawing the Future”) targeted at 7-11 year olds, which has been very successful. GE requested that CAF Secretariat issue a video link concerning same, entitled “Inspiring the Future: Redrawing the Balance”. The pilot initiative will aim to dispel gender stereotypes and encourage young people to think outside their immediate family in regard to their careers aspirations. The pilot will be conducted in approximately 10 schools across NI and a baseline produced on this basis.
Action Point 2 – CAF Secretariat to issue “Inspiring the Future – Redrawing the Balance” video link to CAF members.
8.0 DfE update
8.1 FOH began the update by advising that the Careers Service continues to deliver services digitally, in line with the Departmental operating model. Whilst many stakeholders, particularly schools, expressed a preference for face-to-face delivery in the survey carried out by the Careers Service earlier in the year, a high percentage felt that although not the preferred medium, digital provision was meeting client needs. FOH advised that face-to-face delivery is contingent on public health advice and will be resumed on a phased basis, when it is safe to do so.
8.2 FOH acknowledged that not all adults are aware of how the Careers Service can help them. The Careers Service intends to address this by working closely with DoF, Innovation Lab, to consider behaviours and messaging, and this will feed into the design of the careers portal.
8.3 FOH reported that the proportion of Year 12 students returning to Year 13 this academic year was virtually the same as the pre-pandemic level, indicating that the post-GCSE destination trends are returning to normal.
8.4 The CAF Chair asked FOH about the connection between Xello and the careers portal and how duplication would be avoided. FOH stated that Xello has been a great success and now contains local information regarding college provision. Xello and the portal will therefore be interoperable and users will be able to access Xello through the careers portal.
8.5 FOH was encouraged by CAF members to share any updates regarding service delivery in as timely a manner as possible, to enable schools to make preparations to accommodate any changes. FOH confirmed she would take this feedback on board.
CAF Advice 6 – Any planned changes to careers service delivery methods in the next academic year should be communicated to schools in a timely manner, to facilitate preparation
8.6 As it is envisaged that the careers guidance delivery research project will be completed in February, CAF members agreed that it would be useful to have a single-item agenda Forum meeting in February, to discuss the results of the research project. Action Point 3 – Single items agenda CAF meeting to be convened in February 2022, to discuss findings of the careers guidance delivery research project.
9.0 Transition of Young People into Careers (14-19 Project) update
9.1 Claire McClelland (CMcC) delivered a short presentation on the Project, advising that the draft Framework and Action Plan documents have been signed off by the project board (this is, however, subject to permanent secretary/ministerial approval). There are five key areas, of which careers is one. The Project has linkages and interdependencies across other areas of work and is set in the context of the Skills Strategy, New Decade New Approach (NDNA) and Building Forward: Consolidated Covid-19 Recovery Plan. CMcC advised that there are circa thirty potential actions that could be taken forward in the short, medium and long term however, stressed that implementation is resource-dependent.
9.2 There are six high level strategic outcomes, including: improved awareness/ understanding of options/pathways; reduced duplication with a focus on creating an efficient and effective system; every young person equipped with knowledge and skills; access to a broad, balanced curriculum; an equitable consistent approach and stakeholder organisations adopting a partnership approach. A series of short, medium and long-term potential actions are attached to each of these strategic outcomes. These include the primary school pilot initiative; a legislative requirement for all young people to be given access to all the education/training options available to them at each transition point; a programme to provide appropriate work experience opportunities for young people and the development of a careers/employability module for inclusion in initial teacher education.
9.3 Given the cross-cutting nature of the framework, Executive agreement will be required and the Education and Economy Committees will be briefed. The CAF Chair thanked CMcC for her presentation and enquired when the framework and action plan will be published; CMcC envisaged this will be before the end of the Assembly mandate.
10.0 Labour market partnerships update
10.1 AI and LT delivered a brief presentation to update Forum members on progress with labour market partnerships (LMPs). LMPs recognise that employment and skills operate as an ecosystem and aim to better meet the needs of the labour market. AI advised that there are eleven local council partnerships (one in each council area), with one regional oversight group. It was explained that local partnerships agree representation on their own LMPs, while the regional oversight group membership has representation from council staff, local JBOs, Careers Service, Health Trust, EA, FE colleges and Enterprise partner.
10.2 Forum members were advised that the local partnerships are not yet fully established, however, the aim is that these will be operational by quarter four of the current financial year.
10.3 LT recognised that many different employment and skills initiatives exist locally in relation to employment and skills, and stressed that the purpose of the LMPs is not to add another tier to what is already a very complex environment, but rather, to build relationships across the board and pull activities together as part of a longer-term planning framework, to make them more effective. The aim will be to find better ways of working together; to add value rather than duplicate and to address the common challenges of long-term unemployment, economic inactivity and low attainment. LT advised that there is quite a lot of labour market intelligence data available concerning the above and offered to share this with the CAF members.
10.4 The CAF Chair thanked AI and LT for the comprehensive update, commenting that it was good to see these LMPs developing, and that the CAF had previously advised that it was crucial for the Councils to be at the core of such initiatives.
10.5 Forum members concurred that it was very encouraging to see the progress with the LMPs, however, commented that it could potentially be quite resource- intensive for businesses to manage attendance at meetings across eleven different council areas, particularly for small/micro businesses. AI recognised this challenge, responding that the groups (including sub-groups and working groups) are structured in order to provide flexibility within local LMPs and that DfC Strategic Employer Branch which co-ordinates inputs from employers across the council areas, is represented on the LMP co-design group.
10.6 A Forum member commented that the modest budget would need to be utilised strategically in order to best serve those most in need. AI responded that LMPs were hopeful of attracting further funding from other government departments.
10.7 Availability of skills has long been a theme in the local labour market, commented another Forum member. The member enquired about the level of employer engagement. AI responded that local LMPs aim to be responsive to what is happening in each particular area, so, in addition to involvement from large employers who operate throughout NI (for which there are common themes across the board), certain areas may also have working or sub-groups which represent employment sectors that are particularly pertinent to them.
10.8 A Forum member offered to share business intelligence data pertaining to students at graduate level. AI thanked the Forum member for the helpful offer, commenting that a local app is being worked on, which will show economic activity across local areas in relation to factors such as age, gender, etc.
10.9 The CAF Chair thanked the AI, LT and the Forum members for the discussion, noting that there are several offers of assistance from CAF members in relation to supporting work across the LMPs.
11. AOB
11.1 The CAF Chair encouraged CAF members to share their views in relation to progress made in meeting the policy commitments within Preparing for Success (2015-2020), as part of the ETI’s quality assurance exercise. Forum members were asked to note that there is a short turnaround window for completion and were encouraged to send their views to CAF Secretariat for collation.
11.2 The CAF Chair thanked all members for their participation, and noted that there is a lot of work going on in relation to current strategies. The Forum will reconvene in February as discussed, to consider the findings from the careers guidance delivery research project.